Interviewed by Mungun Altangerel. Photographed by Luubat Gansukh. Venue: Shangri-La Hotel, Ulaanbaatar

• Full name:  Gerelmaa Gerelsaikhan

• Nickname: Gema

• Hobby Alumni:  2004

• Higher Education: Business Administration and Economics, Roskilde University (Both undergraduate and graduate degree)

• Sector: Hospitality

• Current Workplace: Shangri-La Hotel, Ulaanbaatar; MonCham Hong Kong; and MonCham Singapore

• Publications: Mongolia - Real Estate Report 2015, 2016, 2017; “Сайн Охид Тэнгэрт, Муу нь Хаа Сайгүй” by Ute Erhardt (Editor, Translated book from German)

• Languages:  Mongolian, English & Danish

• Countries Lived In:  Denmark, Germany, Hong Kong, Singapore & Mongolia

• Frequented Website:  Quora & work related websites i.e. Shangri-la.com & Stock.Adobe.com

• Current phone: iPhoneX

• App To Recommend: Microsoft & Google Apps, Instagram, Foursquare; Michelin Guides; Goodreads.

• Books To Recommend: Zero to One by Peter Thiel (2014); Hypermodern Times by Gilles Lipovetsky (2005); Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg (2012); Thinking, Fast & Slow by Daniel Kahneman (2011); The Originals by Adam Grant (2016)

• Movies To Recommend: The Before Trilogy: Before Sunrise (1995), Before Sunset (2004), Before Midnight (2013); Movies by Guy Ritchie, Quentin Tarantino. Borgen, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Narcos, Good Wife, Homeland & Versailles;

AT HOBBY SCHOOL

1. You are part of the first class (#HobbyAlumni 2004) to graduate Hobby School! Thank you for sitting down with me. But before we begin, I want to know how did you come up with your nickname “Gema”?

My dad just came up with it since I was a baby. Some people think it’s my English name and call me Jema with J. But just as many other Mongolians, Gema is my shortened name from Gerelmaa. Apparently Gema is a common Spanish name too and I heard it being pronounced as Hema.

2. Has your name been a cause of highschool jokes?

Actually it has been my height. I was called all sorts of names like giraffe, camel, etc. – the usual (giggles).

3. So you were very tall in school?

Quite tall and it was awkward! Always a head taller than my peers since kindergarten; I was 165cm (5.4”) by my 3rd grade. People would try to sell me high school study books or hire me for jobs. Both my father and grandfather were very tall people, you see.

4. The prom must have been quite fun…

Well, not just me, the class girls were usually taller than the boys. At prom, it was decided that for the graduation ceremony, it would be white dresses for girls and tuxedo for the boys. Looking back, we look like we had a polygamist wedding with 4 boys and 8 girls.

5. What was your relationship like with your parents?

I see a lot of parents actively participating in their kids’ lives nowadays. My parents did not check my homework or tell me what to do. However, they would advise me and they basically installed the idea that my future is in my hands, not my parents’ or some else’s. If I asked for help on my homework, for instance, they would remind me that it was MY homework and ask why I was asking for help. It was not that awful as it may sound to you, but it was a normal reality for me and it put things in a larger perspective, which I appreciate now.

PERSONAL

6. Besides English and Mongolian, what other languages are you familiar with?

I was fluent in Danish. A perk of being fluent in one Scandinavian language is that you can understand some Swedish, Norwegian and German. I have lived in Berlin for half a year and I remember speaking some German in restaurants, for example. I have not used my Danish or German since 2011 though.

7. Are there any quirks in Danish language that you would like to make a note of?

I think Danish is the most difficult Scandinavian language in terms of pronunciation. If there are eleven letters in a word, you would swallow about 9 of them when you pronounce it. That is not the case with Swedish or Norwegian.

8. What countries have you been to and for how long?

I lived in Denmark for 5 years; and 6 months in Berlin during my master’s exchange program. After that, in 2011, I decided to move back to Mongolia for good and applied for all the major companies that have been on the rise. But one company that I applied to, SouthGobi Resources, was based in Hong Kong, so I picked that and moved to Hong Kong. So after Denmark, I have lived in Hong Kong for 3 years and Singapore for another 3. Now, I am based in Mongolia.

9. So you finished both of your Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in Denmark?

Europeans generally take a gap year between their highschool and university. But they tend to finish both their undergraduate and graduate programs together. During my undergraduate program, I had not decided on master’s yet, but Roskilde University automatically considered all the undergraduate students for the state funded master’s scholarship. They choose only one student per faculty, so I was very surprised and also very thrilled that I was picked. So I decided to stay for the graduate program.

10. Must have been a very nice scholarship?

Oh yes, it covered everything. Besides the tuition fee, it included funding for textbooks, housing allowance and a monthly stipend. I was working during my undergraduate years, but during my graduate program, I decided not to work, so I travelled a lot during those 2 years.

11. What made you consider going to Denmark in the first place?

My mother used to work for DANIDA, which is the Danish International Development Agency. They implemented lots of educational projects in Mongolia for over a decade. She had many Danish friends and they were all very tall (giggles). But I also applied to universities in U.S, UK and Australia. I grew up with my grandpa, you see, and he advised me to go to a small city, because I’m young and it will be my first time living abroad, so I chose Copenhagen over big cities such as London or Melbourne. This was a very good advice when I think about it now. He said: “You can always live in bigger cities when you’re older”. So answer to your question, yes I wanted to live with tall people; and also the Danish education system is one of the best in the world.     

12. What was Roskilde University like?

I had a choice between the University of Copenhagen or my eventual choice, the Roskilde University of Roskilde city, Denmark. Roskilde is relatively new, it was established only about 40 years ago. Its teaching principles are based on ideas promoted by Ken Robinson, a British author and international advisor on education, who is all about revolutionizing the education system.

13. How does this principle of education work?

Obviously there are basic courses that I need to take. But then there are courses that I get to choose. Every semester we had to write a thesis and work in groups consisting of minimum 2 people or more. The idea behind this is to let us think about what we are doing, creatively criticise one another and learn to work in teams, which is different from traditional way of education where the teacher stands in front and students just copy-paste what the teachers write or say.

14. What are some examples that this approach in education benefited you?

In retrospect, I wouldn’t be where I am now if I did not have such an opportunity. I am much more proactive when it comes to problems and open to new ideas. It helped me gain many experiences that were applicable in real world. And in Denmark, culturally, in the beginning I thought when my fellow classmates were fighting or arguing, I just stayed away. After picking up the language, I understood they rarely use word ‘argue’ in their language and when I asked them why do you argue so much, they would say "we were just discussing!" It was very interesting. They like to debate about different topics and they don’t take it personally. I think Danes are advanced in many levels and this is one of the reasons, in my opinion. In Asia, if you question someone, it can be considered little offensive or you don’t really talk against your bosses or teachers or anybody, it is almost like frowned upon, but it was very normal in Denmark.

15. Is it common for Mongolians to study in Denmark?

There were maybe 10 Mongolians during my time in Denmark. I do not know if it has become a more popular destination or not.

16. Then you must have had to answer to many awkward questions?

Oh yes. Questions about if we had airports, highways or cities, and whether people generally look like me or dress like me (laughs).

17. Anything you would have done differently back in university?

Not really.

CAREER

18. Did you always want to pursue a career in business field?

I did not have to specialise in any field for the first two years at the university. It all boiled down between Computer Science and Business. But I have always been a shy and a geeky kid. I was uncomfortable in social situations and a terrible writer. I wanted to change. I wanted to meet many people and travel around the world. I have no regrets. I believe I have made the right choice.

19. What brought you to Hong Kong?

The decision was made during my graduate thesis phase back in Denmark where I had almost 2 months, waiting to defend my master thesis, so I had quite a lot of time to apply for jobs. My mother never does this to me, but she sent me an email saying "You always wanted to work in Hong Kong!" and sent me this job announcement with SouthGobi Resources, which was based in Hong Kong. I applied and got the job out of over 100 applicants. It was exciting because I had visited Hong Kong for the first time in 1997 on a family holiday and was always fascinated about the place.

20. Why did you decide to come back to Mongolia after Denmark though?

It was my passion to do something for Mongolia or something to do with Mongolia, so if you think about all the companies that I worked for, they are all related to Mongolia. When my parents worked abroad, they always found themselves coming back to Mongolia as well.

21. Do you think we would experience such exciting economic growth in the future again? Why is mining sector such a major economic contributor in Mongolia?

Not predicting, but with the current flow of investments, I’m hoping that major mining companies would contribute more to the economic growth. Mining industry is connected to everything in Mongolia and has a major impact on the overall economy, as we don’t have anything else bigger to offer to the world at the moment. Maybe few decades later, we might find ourselves exporting amazing products to the world, but I can’t see it happening right now as we don’t have the know-how.

When Oyu Tolgoi treaty was signed in 2008/2009, our GDP increased tenfold in few years. Our GDP per capita was around US$400 back in 2007/8 and now it is around US$4,000. Therefore, if another project with an equivalent size reaches an agreement, we may experience another period of economic prosperity and maybe our GDP per capita might increase to US$20,000 or US$30,000 in a very short period of time and the average salary might become US$2,000 or US$3,000 per month.

Mongolia was a former Soviet satellite country, during the Cold War, and I remember grandpa telling me all kinds of stories like Mongolians used to spy on each other. Because of this history, I think Mongolians became suspicious of everything that’s happening around them. During the Cold War, the government hid a lot of information, so when I say “GDP growth is this; salary levels have increased a lot; our average salary is now around MNT 1,000,000, etc.”,  there are some Mongolians who would say: “You’re lying”. It’s pretty funny actually - people either have alzheimers and forget about how much our average salary was (US$40 per month few years back) or they refuse to believe in statistical numbers. I remember when I was in Denmark, there were lot of au pair girls earning around US$300 per month, and now if you ask any Mongolians who want to go and do such job, nobody would, because they can easily earn this in Mongolia.

Also, my then employer, SouthGobi Resources, a coal mining company, was valued at US$2 billion and were offered 56% stake to be sold at CA$926 million, but Mongolian Government just decided to stop this transaction. The infamous SEFIL (Strategic Entities Foreign Investment Law) was passed and in few months time, the company I was working for went down to US$300 million valuation in market value. SouthGobi Resources was not even on the list of the strategic assets, but suddenly it became one. Since then, most foreign investors either exited or they’re looking for an exit, but I’m always hopeful though. Mongolian economy is very tiny and the population is only 3 million. For example: Apple Inc. reached trillion dollar market value, while Mongolian economy is at US$11 billion, approx 100 times smaller. So what I am trying to say is one more big project can make a huge difference in Mongolia.

22. What happened after SouthGobi Resources?

Rio Tinto took over the company and all my bosses left. It was a period of complete transition. So a year after I first joined SouthGobi, I joined Asia Pacific Investment Partners (“APIP”) in Hong Kong and later I worked at its Singapore office also. My main job at APIP was to raise funds but I was involved in everything from sales to marketing. I even conducted a research for their report publishings.

23. While all this change and growth was happening to your professional life, how did you fare as a family member, as a friend, as an individual? Did your private life take a backseat?

I think I have been a pretty good family member and a good friend. Talked with my mom for 3-4 hours at least once a week, same with my friends as well. Although my friends were in different countries in experiencing different situations, I did my best to stay in touch. Real friends, in my opinion, do not need to meet everyday. Friends just need to have each other’s back when it is needed.

Based on my experience, the core value of people do not change that much and when you understand each other’s core value, people can become friends pretty easily and stay friends for a longer period of time.

24. Let's talk about your founding of Mongolian Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong and also in Singapore. What is the function of a Chamber of Commerce?

It's all about connecting people. It is a non-governmental organization that connects companies with the government for commercial activity. While it is independent from both the government and businesses, it can influence decisions made by the government in regards of commerce. It also promotes networking activity among international businesses.

25. How did you get involved in that?

The Consul General Ariunbold Yadmaa in Hong Kong came up with the idea of Mongolian Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong. So it was me and 3 other senior guys. I did all the footwork and organized the first event which saw the appearance of over 300 people. One time, in 2013/2014, the President of Mongolia Elbegdorj Tsakhia with several of his ministers asked us to organise an event for them and it turned out to be a great success.  

26. How much interest does the Mongolian Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong or Singapore garner?

For a chamber of commerce to be successful, there needs to be a lot of interest in that particular country. International interest in Mongolia has somewhat declined over the years. Secondly, there needs to be a lot of support from the government. Mr Ariunbold Yadmaa, the Consul General to Hong Kong at that time, was very active in terms of promoting Mongolia. We need someone like him in every country to promote Mongolia. And fellow Mongolians in the respective countries also need to support. The AmCham or AustCham in Mongolia, for example, have huge support from their fellow Americans or Aussie companies/individuals in Mongolia and they’re the main drivers of the community. In both Hong Kong & Singapore, all members who supported our chambers were mainly foreign companies/individuals. The current economic condition & decline in FDI is unfortunate, because a chamber of commerce is truly a bridge for international businesses.

27. Besides the mining industry, in your opinion, what other Mongolian sectors are of interest for foreign investors and businesses that people could take advantage of?

In my experience, as long as you understand the market and have a sound business plan, there are many opportunities. Moreover, we shouldn’t only look inward to Mongolia. We are a small market. We should also look for opportunities outside, for business that we can export goods and services to foreign markets. Attractive legal and business environment helps too, which is severely lacking in Mongolia.

28. You are also a writer with a publication of Amazon.com, how would you describe the experience?

The annual “Mongolia - Real Estate Report” publishing was an interesting experience. I enjoyed researching facts and statistics. As for Amazon.com, you are in a process that would last 1-2 months of documentation, mostly proving that your work is original and from a legit company.

29. Now you are the Director of Communications / Marketing at Shangri-La Hotel, Ulaanbaatar. What’s it like?

Moving back to Mongolia from Singapore was a big decision for me. Although I did not really experience culture shock coming back to Mongolia, the corporate environment was quite different than I was used to. I was maybe the number 3 person in my previous company or and had much more freedom in conducting my work.

Shangri-La is a part of a group company that does many things including properties, logistics and hospitality. Hotel business is just one of them and the hotel in Mongolia is one among over 100 hotels around the world they own. Hence, the decision making process can be somewhat time-consuming, because everything needs to be approved by many parties.

30. The work environment must have presented you with new challenges.

I wouldn’t really call it a challenge. It was just a new industry for me and more of a focused work environment. In my previous company APIP, I did so many things on my own, but here at Shangri-La, it is more focused. In Shangri-La, when it is not within your department, they would ask: "Why are you working on this? If it is not your work, it is not your work". I just want to help, but apart from that, I work with many Mongolians and very few expats now, which was vice versa in my previous companies.

31. What’s next for you after Shangri-La?

I don’t really like to plan my life ahead for more than 6 months. There are always new opportunities coming up. For instance, I didn’t know a year ago that I would be working in Mongolia. Here and there, I think about Ivy League schools for completely different field or maybe travel to different countries and ask myself do I want to live here. I think about lot of things. I guess what I am trying to say is that I really like to be adventurous and I am always open to new opportunities. Ultimately, you always have to evaluate if these adventures or opportunities that are presented to you is helping you to scale up in life or not.

32. How often do you feel like going back to Hong Kong or Singapore?

Hong Kong and Singapore are one of the best places to live in the world, in my opinion, so yes, I might go back if an opportunity arises.

33. With your broad professional experiences, what are some advices you would like to give to the young people entering this business world?

I think there are only 2 types of people: Those who do, and those who wait until something happens to them. I see many Mongolians who are just waiting for instructions at their jobs. While I understand that there may be instances where their initiative could receive punishment from their bosses, coming up with creative ideas and taking the initiative will benefit you more in the long run.

Also, the most successful people I have met in my life were always and extremely humble. So be humble!

34. How would you describe the difference in working in Asia as opposed to, say Europe?

Everything is growing very fast in Asia and it is very exciting. I wouldn’t have had this many opportunities if I had stayed in Europe. Probably, I would have been an analyst still, as things go relatively slow over there. Slow as in career advancement, not in terms of doing business. Danes are all about efficiency and they work only 37 hours per week. In Asia, lot of people work overtime, but in Denmark, if you need to work overtime, your company doubles your salary, so most companies actually tries to make the work more efficient than paying double. In Hong Kong and Singapore, I’ve seen many people working overtime and it was bit shocking for me, in the beginning. As for Asia and Mongolia, there are many big differences. In Mongolia, you can manage to do a lot of things relatively fast, like the rest of Asia, apart from getting stuck in traffic jam.

35. How is it to work back in Mongolia?

One sad thing I realised about Mongolians is that we rarely support one another. When I started 2 chambers in Hong Kong and Singapore, most of the time, it was mostly foreigners who supported me and came to my events and I wondered why there were so few Mongolians supporting the Chamber. I still wonder why.

In career, when someone is doing good, Mongolians rarely say “Oh, good for him/her”, “He/she must be good/smart”, “I’m happy someone is successful”, “How to be like him/her”, etc. Almost never! Instead, I hear “Oh, he/she must have relatives/connections, some kind of hidden secret”. Even when an entrepreneur is doing so well, I hear someone say “Oh, he/she must be just spending his/her parents money” or "That person can never succeed on his/her own".

Now imagine this scenario where a foreigner shows up in Mongolia - same age, same education, similar experience - and almost no one questions his/her credibility and Mongolians immediately accept and respect them. I’m really proud of my sister (Batzul Gerelsaikhan) who started this series of interviews, because I think she wanted to show Mongolians who are doing great things not just in Mongolia, but also all around the world. I’m so happy that we are, at least few of us, celebrating each other’s successes and getting inspired and motivated by one another.

When I was working in Singapore, I saw how Singaporeans supported each other and they saw themselves as an equal when interacting with expats; and vice versa when they were confident and respectful to one another, the expats respected them back also. What I am trying to say is that when we are not even respecting one another, how would a complete stranger from a different country respect Mongolians? I see a trend where we don’t really appreciate our educated and knowledgeable people; and age and title seem more relevant factor than their knowledge or experience. When you don’t understand who’s more knowledgeable or experienced, it is very hard to understand where your life or career is heading to.

36. Did you have any good mentors in your life?

My mother Battsetseg Togtokh definitely comes to mind. She sees and understands things from different angles and perspective, which I really admire. I would like to say my grandpa Togtokh Ganjuur as well who was a commissar in the World War II and Battle of Khalkhyn Gol. Actually, one of my friends said my grandfather was probably leading the last cavalry unit during WWII - I never realised that until he said that. Maybe because of military or things in life he experienced, he was probably the most optimistic person I’ve ever met in my life. He’d wake up same time, sleep at the same time, eat same portion of food and was always active. I remember him going to US, when he was in his 80s and came back and wrote an article on how developed the country was and what can we learn from USA in the daily newspaper in Mongolia and he’d be starting all sort of unions or clubs and actively attend the meetings to make Mongolia better in his 80s. He couldn’t sit still! My mother is exactly the same and I don’t know how many NGOs she founded - I lost count. Both of them, they didn’t just do their work in front of them, but always wanted to contribute to the society at large and make a difference. Finally, I would like to highlight my boss Lee Cashell whom I worked for 5 years, he is like a walking sales machine.

However, I don’t think mentors would always be in your life. Mentors can even be people who inspire you, tell you valuable things and change your life at once. I have so many people who influenced me in that way. Probably I wouldn’t call them my mentors directly, but they made a difference in my life.

TRIVIA

37. What’s your favorite activity for relaxation?

Meet with friends after work. I also enjoy going to the countryside. Travelling is my most favorite thing to do - it can be another country or just a newly opened restaurant.

38. Do you put a lot of emphasis on diet and working out?

I’m still trying to figure out what exercises suit me. And I don’t really have any strict dietary rules. I try to balance those things to stay healthy. Like sleep at least 6 hours a day and eat at least 2 meals a day, for example.

39. What are your plans for starting your own family?

I do not want to rush. When the time comes I wish to enjoy my married life. I want to make sure that my future kid has a proper attention, a proper school, and parents who have time for them. I don’t want to do anything too early and end up frustrating myself, my family, my friends and my hypothetical future husband and children.

40. Life advice that had helped you a lot?

Observe people who are more successful than you. Make a good use and really appreciate the time they spend with you or with good people in general. Don’t take them for granted. Don’t worry about having nothing to offer in return, because when the time comes, you will start giving back.

41. What of your bad habits?

It's very hard for me to concentrate on things that do not interest me. But I’ve realized that I don’t have to be passionate about everything that I do. Sometimes you just have to finish what's in front of you. When you learn the things you don’t like, you eventually learn to like it. For instance, I hated writing or giving a speech in the public. I’m not going to say I love it, but I can do it and I don’t hate it now.

42. What are your good habits?

I like to finish what I’ve started and I get obsessed with things I’m working on whether it is a book I’m writing or a simple event that I’m organising. I believe all the small details matter and that’s how you actually learn new things. I read somewhere that obsession and specialization in one field made human beings develop to the next level. Also, there was an happiness study on German TV and it said that all the happy elderly people had some sort of hobby and obsession to a point that they do not notice the time passing. I never thought obsession was a good habit until I read or saw these studies.

43. What is a humorous story or an observation from your work?

It was during my early days in Hong Kong. I decided to walk from my office to a meeting at IFC in Central Hong Kong. Because Hong Kong is very humid and hot, I ended up turning tomato red with all the walking. It didn’t help that I was late too. I excused myself for a bathroom break, but it didn't help. I got so nervous. So a life lesson from this is, when you are new to a hot and humid country, even for what it seems like a 5 minute walk - take a taxi and stay cool.

44. If you could pass 1 law globally, what would it be?

Health care for everyone. People can think rationally when they are healthy or have a decent income.

45. What is the 1 thing you would like to fix in Mongolia?

I’m sad about politicians being extremely selfish. It is especially debilitating when it comes to international businesses for Mongolia. When is the new airport going to finish? When is TT going to start? When is the railway to the Chinese border going to finish? When is the CHP5 going to finish? All just stuck due to politics.  

46. If you could have dinner with anyone dead or alive, who would it be?

Either Leonardo Da Vinci or Coco Chanel. Da Vinci was definitely not a normal person, and I would just like to see what he was like. Coco Chanel also because she was so ahead of her time.

Actually, we recently found out that we’re related to Agvan Dorjiev, who was a finance minister of Tibet, fighting for its independence and he built a Buddhist Monastery in St. Petersburg in Russia funded by the Russian Tsar Nicholas II and Bogd Khaan. It is unbelievable how small our world is and all these information was hidden because of the Cold War.

47. Who would you like to recommend for our next Hobby Alumni interview?

I want to recommend my sister Batzul Gerelsaikhan who is the founder of the Hobby Alumni. Batzul is the first Mongolian to graduate from University of Copenhagen in Denmark and she worked at various sectors like one of the #Big4, private equity firm and now in real estate. I am not sure if she is ever going to do it, but if I need to recommend someone not-related, then I would like to recommend Oyuntsetseg Durvuljin bagsh, the founder of Hobby School of Ulaanbaatar. She has influenced so many kids’ lives (including mine) and probably one of the most inspiring people I’ve ever met in my life.